06.09.2010 18:20

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Hi Chris,

You're very very probably right. I hadn't considered another type of jack.
Also, to be honest, I couldn't figure out the lack of turret bin Balkenkreuz. Considering they were still seen on the 503 'mids' of winter/spring '44. Plus there's no evidence in the image of a paint over.

Your Historicamedia image looks much sharper.
Is there any evidence of this hit mark on it?:


If it's not there, it must be an earlier pic.
If it is there, it's still very very probably an earlier pic

Grant.

PS: Nice jack link, very handy. Cheers.

'Nicht identifiziert' = 203 05.09.2010 01:43

Forum: sPzAbt.507

'203' is a match for this one from the 'Nicht identifiziert':



Lot's of matches on the hull side; missing two rear fenders, broken zim, camo etc. + 3 spare links on the turret side.
But the most obvious is the solid black balkenkreuz and it's position in relation to the broken zimmerit:




Grant.

04.09.2010 23:16

Forum: sPzAbt.508

Thanks Chris.

Great idea. I would never of thought about asking the ML Shermaholics.

Unfortunately in the pic there doesn't appear much to go on for ID.
Just those hoziontally stacked Jerrycans.

Cheers, Grant.

04.09.2010 11:22

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Hi Rob,

With the worn whitewash '323'. I think it's still the same tiger, hull and turret.
Looking thru' all the Aug'43 pics of '323', I noticed the jack handle is always loose.
You can see on this thread pic the handle clamp is broken off:



...and again in this pic. Also the note impact mark on top left corner of the turret bin.
Most importantly the triangle(ish) foot plate of the 15ton jack:



The impact mark and the missing clamp can both be seen on the whitewash pic.
Except the foot plate of the jack looks to be the square type of a 20 ton jack:



So I'd guess the worn whitewash pic must be later.
20ton jacks weren't introduced until Dec'43/Jan'44(?).
Plus the rear mudguards look very crisp and straight.
Maybe '323' had a late refit? Mudguards, fenders, loops etc.?


As for the first pic, this one here's in the gallery as '331':



Is it the same Tiger? or one next to it?

Best, Grant.

04.09.2010 03:16

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Hi Rob,
I think the hull in your top pic is the same hull.
Probably after the battered side fenders were removed.
I have a clearer photo from the same scene:



Notice the (single) square hook is still there but has been flattened against the hull side and is now covered in mud.
I've marked it's position, welded to the hull above the second bolt of the second fender (counting from the back).
Probably the most obvious match is the gouge in the hull side, just forward of the balkenkreuz.
And the front right mudguard is gone.

All these appear to match with your photo:



I think it's the same, like I say just an earlier pic before the fenders were removed.

Best, Grant.

03.09.2010 17:15

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Hi Rob,
I'm not so clued-up with these early 503 tigers, but could it be '323'?

The markings on the loaders hatch look the same.
And the right front mudguard looks to missing on both.



Grant.

508? 01.09.2010 02:34

Forum: sPzAbt.508

In this Japanese book; (trans:Tiger heavy tank. I think?) :


This pic is in the '508' section:


It looks to be a 'late mid' because of what looks like a silhouette of a travel lock on the rear hull.
There's also two jerrycans stored (unusually) hoziontal on the rear hull:


I can't find the pic in gallery. Maybe it's not a '508'?

Grant.

213 + 214 31.08.2010 01:34

Forum: sPzAbt.507

I think this unidentified gallery 507 Tiger is another pic of '213':


When compared to the other gallery '213' pics;...


..there are a few matches:


1. The partially open left lid on the turret bin.
2. The light-coloured wooden box (also slightly open).
3. The left tow eye sticks out a little (not hanging vertically).The missing left mudguard.

Also the location and background looks to be the same place as here: (I think that it's a pile of cartrigdes on the ground behind the Tiger)



In this gallery pic of '213' there's a Russian PPSh propped behind the headlight:


On this pic from "Combat history of s.Pz.Abt 507", the light-coloured wooden box (slightly open) is in the same place, making me think this is also '213':
(Is the shadowy blur behind the headlight also the PPSh?)


And from the same book pic; '214':


Gallery size:






Grant.

PS: For Robert's post 'x21' above; the first digit is very confusing.
It looks like the top of a '3'and the bottom of a '2'??? Like a capitol 'Z'???
I'd be more inclined to think it's a distorted flat topped '2' than a '3'?

Re: 231 26.08.2010 22:59

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Hi Chris,
The last digit does look like a '1'.

I think '234' can be ruled out as well:


Looking at this other still:


Any ideas what sticking up between the mudguard and the fender?:


Grant.

132 + 332 26.08.2010 22:19

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

This '132' question above got me looking through some pics...

Here's one that's not in the gallery:


..and another pic of '332' from the towing scene that's not in the gallery:


Both pics are from the Russian magazine "TigerI on the Eastern front" (I think thats the translation).

Gallery size:




Grant.

'14' 1st or 3rd Ko.? 24.08.2010 11:14

Forum: sPzAbt.506

This pic posted by Pascal, halfway up the last page, is in the 1st Ko. gallery:


The number looks to have a dark outline:


Is it not more likely to be a 3rd Ko. Tiger because of the outline? As explained by Hartmut on page 1 of this thread.
For example with 3rd Ko.'s '5':


Grant.

22.08.2010 16:32

Forum: sPzAbt.506

Hi Hartmut,
I agree, from the bits I've read the 506 did do a lot road marching east of Lemberg in the winter/spring months of '44.
"Many rivers to cross"

This is the best shot I can find of the Unknown 1/.Ko Tiger:


The turret ring guard can be seen here, plus the 25mm roof, seem to make it a Feb'44 steel wheeler.
Might help with any future ID.

Grant.

22.08.2010 16:10

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Hi Chris,
They do look to match.

I assumed these two were the same Tiger because of the right hand track laid out under & behind the tank.
Also the antenna's bent the same:



Grant.

21.08.2010 13:36

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Zitat:

Original von Blondel/Pascal Tiger Nr. 133 ? The same bale of straw : Regards

Could this one also be '133'?:



A great series of pics Pascal.

Grant.

16.08.2010 01:43

Forum: sPzAbt.506

Hi Chris,
I think the gallery entries originiated with Alexander's post on the first page of this thread (3rd post down).
In the 3rd and 4th pics of the post, he (IMO) correctly ID's 2Ko '2' and 1Ko mid '13'.
In the 5th and 6th pics (the 2 rear shots), he says "probabley a match" for '2' and '13'.
But unforunately I don't think they are, for the reasons above. I think they would probably better in the unidentified unless or until someone finds a match.
Cheers, Grant.

PS: This pic of mid '13' is also from the same time and location, note the two men stood next to the tree:


Here they are again in the top corner of this pic:

Gallery error?? 14.08.2010 20:24

Forum: sPzAbt.506

Hi,
From the background in the following pics, I've presumed that all photos were taken in the same location:






Which leads to be believe that these (ringed) gallery pics are not from the same location (and same pics in gallery for 2/Ko. '2').
So, are probably not 2/Ko. '2' and 1/ko. '13':


A closer look shows a lot of location differences;
Snow on the ground, on both sides of the river.
The water level is higher.
There's no trees or bushes on the river bank.
..and the crew positions/numbers/appearence don't appear to match either:


Also, in the 2nd pic above, we can see that '13' has rubber rimmed wheels, so a 'mid' production.
According to TIC1, the 506 were issued Tigers in Aug'43 and again at the very end of Jan'44.
So any 'mids' they had, would probably be of the very early type or the very late type.
The '13?' in the last pic doesn't have any rear end features of an early 'mid' (no pistol port, no 'feifel' brackets/mounts, and what looks like a 20t jack)
nor any late 'mid' features (mainly, no external travel lock).
I would guess that this 1/Ko. Tiger is an early 'steel wheeler'; 25mm roof/loaders hatch splash guard and what appears to be a turret ring guard (small pic), and no welded blocks on the rear hull.

Hope this is as clear as I think it is..
..and my apologies if it screws up the gallery..

Cheers,
Grant.

14.08.2010 09:52

Forum: sPzAbt.506

Looking at the background;



...it looks like the same location as in this grab of '2' posted by Chris on page 1:



Cheers,
Grant.

Another 506 river crossing 14.08.2010 01:16

Forum: sPzAbt.506

I can't remember where this pic is from?
It looks like three 506 Tigers, with 1./Ko's '7' leading:



I can't spot any markings on the other two:



Gallery size:

Another 933 pic 04.08.2010 22:59

Forum: 9./SS-Panzerregiment 3 Totenkopf

From Restayn's 'Tiger I on the Eastern Front':


Restayn states in his caption the Tiger in the background is '933'. And it does have some matching features with the other '933' pics:
The twisted right front fender.
The white mark in the middle of the drivers plate is probably the 'horseshoe/clover'.
What convinced me though, was the spare links on the front.
The links are made up of two sets, a row of 8 and a row of 4.

From the other '933' pics:



The same set up on Restayns pic:


Gallery size:

Unknowns driver 03.08.2010 01:34

Forum: 9./SS-Panzerregiment 3 Totenkopf

I'm afraid this doesn't help much with an ID (unless someone might recognise him).
But a better shot of the driver from this TK unknown:





Grant.

03.08.2010 01:18

Forum: sPzAbt.501/424

Zitat:

Original von Chris Brown Hi Grant, Here is the one higher resolution pic of the post-Oct44 gallery #132 that I have. Not sure that the number can be determined from this copy. I think the gallery pics are from when Hartmut first started, so maybe he can shed some light on this one? Chris.

Hi Chris & Hartmut,
Yes, it 's difficult to make out any kind of number on the above pic. The last digit even looks like it could be an '0' ?

Looking at these pics from your earlier post Chris, the pre-Okt Tiger does look very much like '132';



Here's a copy of the same pic that I found on the HD:


Hopefully there's a clear copy of the 2nd post-Okt Tiger pic somewhere that might show us more.

Grant.

'111' + an observation + a maybe 01.08.2010 13:17

Forum: sPzAbt.501/424

Hi,
Another pic of '111' that's not in the gallery.
Strangely, the markings on the front hull look different/less defined, but it is from the time/scene:


Gallery size:




Looking through the gallery I noticed the 4 pics of '132' show two different Tigers.
The two pics on the left show a post Okt'43 Tiger, centred headlight.
And the two on the right show a pre Okt'43 Tiger, headlight on the left hull roof.
I'm not saying they are not all '132', it's just an observation.
Plus I don't have any larger copies of the centre headlighted Tiger to check out.




And the maybe:
I had the pic in my '501' file, though I've no idea where it's from. Maybe it's not a '501'?



Grant.

24.07.2010 22:51

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Zitat:

Original von Hartmut von Holdt The Tiger have those sandbags on the turret like on your pics on top of this page. May this is from the same scene in early 44?

Hi Hartmut,
I was thinking the same thing.
Maybe the top pics are at the place of departure and this one is at the front?

Grant.

24.07.2010 22:45

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Thanks Hartmut,
Clearly '324'.
Cheers,
Grant.

24.07.2010 22:19

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Hi Chris,
I thought here would be better because, (from what I can make out), the majority of the Tigers in the post May '43 gallery still have the turret dischargers fitted.
Therefore I guessed this one might be a later Tiger, winter 43/44?

Grant.

311... and a question. 24.07.2010 21:39

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Another angle of '311' thats not yet in the gallery:



Gallery size


Q: I thought this was a rear shot of '311' :


..then spotted these two pics in the gallery as '324':



Can anyone tell why these are '324'?
I'm confused because none of the other '324' pics show the box or the jerrycan holder on the rear hull plate.

Thanks for any explanations,
Grant.

EDIT:
I've just spotted the '324' thread further down the page. And this pic from Hartmut:

Another white 'mid' on a train 24.07.2010 20:41

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

This photo is from Kleine/Kühn's "Tiger" book, the German edition:



Blown up, it looks like it might say '301' on the turret?
Though the '1' does look a little too tall:



Grant.

22.07.2010 00:17

Forum: sPzAbt.505

I was just thinking the same thing, Chris .. Did the 509 have any early production Tigers?

I was thinking about what you said about the last digit overlapping the vision port;
"Another concern is why the last digit is located over the vision slit,... If this was #122, having a narrow 1st digit would give little excuse for running out of space."

I don't have that much on the 505 but these Tigers all include a '1' in the turret number and still overrun the vision port:




Also if '321' had any other last digit it looks as if it would overrun:


I noticed '114' and '133' have similiar style camo to 'x22', and also have the smoke dischargers removed.
The odd thing is, as you already pointed out, the lack of bow spare track links if it is a 1.Kp.

Of course none of this helps with an ID.. it just confuses me more

Cheers, Grant.

RE: 323 + 323? 19.07.2010 23:56

Forum: sPzAbt.505

Zitat:

Original von Chris Brown Pic of #323 from Tank Power Vol.XIV No.230 Pic of 323? from Ebay.com The digits x23 are visible in the photo. This Tiger appears to have the 'arc' of light camo on the hull side, typical of 3.Kp. All gallery pics of early 3.Kp Tigers have track links stowed on the turret, but they are absent on many 1.Kp and 2.Kp ones. The absence of turret S-Mine dischargers is again common to all early 3.Kp Tigers and rules out #123 as a possibility. The gallery currently has no early Tiger #223, though Alexander Gerlach at the top of this thread has proposed that this is #223. If correct, then #223 can be eliminated as an option too. Link http://cgi.ebay.com/68-German-Armoured-P...294% 3A50 Gallery Size Chris.

Hi Chris,

I came across a clearer copy of the middle photo,
and it looks more like 'x22' to me:






The mantlet and position of the numbers don't match '222'. Maybe it's '322' or '122'?
Any ideas?

Grant.

13.07.2010 19:03

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Hi Chris,
I'm pretty sure there's no brackets on the train Tiger.
There's a very clear copy of the photo in 'Achtung Panzer #6'. And the brackets definitely look not to be fitted.
Here's a better copy:


..and a larger copy of the other:


There also appears to be no sign of an impact/gouge like on the Jähde Tiger.

The trained Tigers look to be from Jan'44 production.
Which would explain why some have a shovel fitted and some don't. Also some with hull extension cut-outs and others not and the 20ton jack, rear travel lock.

Those barrel rings are a good spot on your "alternative match". They do look the same.
Is that a factory repair Tiger? An early turret on a later 'centred headlight' hull?

Grant.

10.07.2010 16:43

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Zitat:

Original von Hartmut von Holdt The Tiger is the same as this one here with Major Jähde. The photo show him with his new Ritterkreuz around march 44. It looks like this was his crew and Tiger.....but on the other hand he was Commander of 502 at this time and the Tiger looks not like a Befehlswagen. Major Jähde leave 502 in march 44 after he reached his Ritterkreuz. I would say your photo serie was made a bit later around this time in spring when 502 was send to "Pleskau".

Hi,
Though the chipped zim does look the same, after looking at this photo again, I believe it can't be the same Tiger.
If you look under Major Jähde feet you see the shovel mounted in it's brackets.

Whereas the train Tiger, being a later production, has no shovel or brackets fitted:


(noticed this while looking for 'reserved shovel' pics, after reading Davids post. Of which I couldn't find any).

Grant.

15.06.2010 00:33

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Nice photo.
It looks like another match to one of the train Tigers:

13.06.2010 22:36

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

Major Jähde leave 502 in march 44 after he reached his Ritterkreuz. I would say your photo serie was made a bit later around this time in spring when 502 was send to "Pleskau".

Hi Hartmut,
The Tigers being loaded for transport look 'factory fresh', no dents, no missing fenders or fixtures etc. An overall whitewash and no turret numbers.
This would make me think the photos were taken earlier, rather than later, than the Major Jähde photo?

Maybe one of these deliveries;
From TIC1:
12 February 1944: 13 new tanks arrive in Mereküla.

29 February 1944: 17 additional replacement Tigers are integrated.

Grant.

Matching unknown 13.06.2010 13:11

Forum: sPzAbt.502/511

This unidentified pic from the gallery is from the same scene as the following photos.



My copy of this pic is not as wide as the gallery copy.
But the front Tiger (2nd in the gallery pic) in this pic:





..... is a match for this late 'mid':







The rear Tiger in this pic is also the same one;



..note the mark on the front, amongst other things:



Also from the same scene but it could be anyone of the Tigers:



Has anyone any idea of the location?
Going from the Tigers features; Rubber rimmed wheels, external travel lock, 20t jack and hull cut-outs, it must be dated around end Jan/Feb '44?

Grant.

234 + xx4 Potash 26.05.2010 23:23

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

On a clearer copy the turret numbers can be seen on two of the other Tigers.
One is '234' and the other ends with a '4'. Looks like 'x34' but I'm not certain, so 'xx4'.
(Note the 'late mid' barrel lock on 'xx4')



These positions on Mario's plan:



Grant.

241 19.05.2010 16:06

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

Hi Hartmut,
I'm pretty certain your mystery Tiger above is this one; '241':



There's plenty of matches, the most obvious being the missng top discharger on the left turret side:



Another '241' pic I came across:



Gallery size:





Grant.

324 + 2 Unkowns (3Ko?) in Budapest. 18.05.2010 19:22

Forum: sPzAbt.503 FHH

These pic are from "The Combat History of....", the Stackpole books version.

324





And 2 unidentifiables that look to be from the same sequence (also 3.Ko???) :





I can't find any matches for the 2 unkowns.
One has similiar camo to '314'; the two dark patches on the side fenders.. But nothing conclusive:



Gallery size:







Grant.

RE: 323/322 12.05.2010 16:41

Forum: sPzAbt.505

Hi Chris,
Sorry for the late reply.. But you're right, the camo's don't seem to match, especially along the gun sleeve.

Grant.

more 231 and 300 07.05.2010 22:03

Forum: sPzAbt.505

'231' 'Before and after'.
The 2nd pic is very similiar to the one posted by Mario (page1,post2), but it is different:





Again very similiar to the gallery pic, but it is different:

'300'



Gallery size:





'322' or '323'?

Chris discussed this Tiger on the first page of this thread and came to the conclusion it should be tagged '322' and not '333'.
In this copy it looks more like '323' to me:



What do you think?

Grant.

Another 933 pic 06.05.2010 09:00

Forum: 9./SS-Panzerregiment 3 Totenkopf

Moved to the correct thread

Grant.